Kim Clement Prophesying Techniques
On TBN's Praise the Lord Wednesday night "prophet" Kim Clement made the following claim:"I prophesied in October of last year to the president of the United States of America. I have to tell you it was the most wonderful thing that could have happened to me because I know the contradiction around him because he is so prophetic – and people don’t understand that, but he is – and I said to him and spoke about a hurricane that was going to come in August and September of 2005. And I spoke about the homes that were going to be ripped up and the trees that were going to be thrown around."
Of course, having been based on Texas he knows that August and September are prime hurricane months and that his odds of being correct were pretty good!!!
Prophets with 50/50 Hindsight
From yesterday's Elijah List e-mailing, Chuck Pierce. We never hear these things beforehand
I am writing you because of your heart to intercede. I use
the word "intercede" because these are times of standing, until we see victory
coming into our atmosphere. These are times when the prophetic voice coming from
the prophets must mature into accuracy, reflecting the urgency of times and
seasons. Shakings will continue. I saw three cities that were key for prayer
this year: New Orleans, Houston, and Los Angeles. Therefore, I visited all three
cities earlier this year to pray, speak, and encourage the Body.
On the September 13th broadcast of Issues, Etc. National Association of Evangelicals leader Ted Haggard made this astute observation: Ted Haggard:
I pastor a church of 11-12,000 people and unfortunately there have probably been 30 people in our visitor's meeting that have asked to see the doctrinal position of our church.Todd Wilken:
What does that tell you, Pastor Haggard
It means that people choose their church based on how it feels, not based on what it believes, which means we're incredibly vulnerable.Todd Wilken:
To what?Ted Haggard:
Oh, to heresy.Haggard then goes on to ruin an otherwise correct observation:Ted Haggard:
It means people would - Joel Osteen, he does have pretty good theology
but people don't go to Joel's church because of his theology predominantly. And it's the largest church in America. So that's something to be discussed.This is the same Joel Osteen who won't preach the Law, but will preach the "gospel of self-esteem," the Word Faith theology of his father, John Osteen, will tell you that God wants to give you preferential treatment, that we need to be careful what we say because our words can become self-fulfilling prophecies since our words have power, and will teach that Jesus had to go to hell to pay for our sins. And Osteen has "pretty good theology"???
The latest heresy from Tony Campolo: God is Not Omnipotent
. He writes "The Hebrew Bible doesn't say God is omniponent. When disaster strikes, he cries with the rest of us."
Kim Clement: Katrina is God's Judgment on New Orleans
Once again Kim Clement is creating a stir by claiming that New Orleans is being judged by God. He writes:
Aug 31, 2005
On July 22nd, 2005, while in Texas ministering, I received a word from the Spirit which was spoken publicly at Christian Life Center in Humble, TX. Here is the word:
Servants of God; Gatekeepers of New Orleans:
"Enough of past curses reminding you of yesterday’s failures. Enough of New Orleans and its treachery. Enough of stealing the Ark of the Covenant from my people just because you had those surrounding you that had no faith. Caleb said "we are able to take this land;" Joshua said "we are able to take this land." But ten voices arose against the Lord God. And they would stone my servant Moses and say let us stone them and raise up another leader so that we may go back to Egypt. Would you go back to your dung? Would you go back to your vomit?
O New Orleans God speaks to you from Houston tonight and says enough of this! For a judgment is coming says the Spirit of the Lord, and I will take the men that have stood in faith, raise them above the flood that shall destroy those that constantly bicker and stand against my servant Moses, or my servant Bilbo. I want you to understand there are great men in New Orleans that have faith, but you have been set aside not to lose but to win. Enough of this! For I will take the curses and the bodies will even rise and they will come forth on the water, but I will keep you and the stench of death will only last a few days. And then what I promised two years ago will come to pass for August, September and October of this year I made a promise it would happen, and God said be strengthened now, be strengthened now, for enough is enough says the Lord."
Prophecy from 7-22-05- Pastor Richard Rodriguez (Host of the meetings held in Houston, TX) Christian Life Center- 6650 Rankin Rd. Humble, TX 77396 (281)-319-4673 www.clc-church.com
Very seldom have I have been given the duty of delivering a word that entails judgment to a region or to a person, so when I heard what God spoke in July, I realized that this was going to be an extremely serious catastrophe. I was disturbed that night but kept my feelings to myself, wondering how I should pray about this. I love New Orleans, and had been there a number of times. My dear friend, Pastor Garland Bilbo, who had hosted my ministry a number of times was present in the meeting that night, and God even referred to him in the prophecy. His family had been a target of attack during the eighties and suffered persecution from religious forces during the Nineties due to a public scandal in their family. This prophecy is one of the most accurate that I have ever been given and yet it almost sounded like God was about to deal with the Gatekeepers and spiritual leaders of New Orleans rather than the sinners of that City.
A part of the prophecy that concerned me was the fact that the flood would destroy those that constantly bicker and stand against my servant Moses (or my servant Bilbo.) I did not truly believe that these people would be destroyed in the flood but rather the waters would rid the City of the curses and bring an end to discord and divisive leaders. For God to refer to "Moses" spoke volumes to me. Moses was taking the people from a mindset of captivity and oppression into a land of "PROMISE" and yet the people (God's people) were bent on going back or even destroying the "voice" that represented God's intention for a better and glorious life on earth for the slaves who were actually born to be Kings. Remember Israel went from being Kings to becoming slaves because THEY SOLD THEIR PROPHETIC VOICE - JOSEPH. Joseph represented the prophetic voice amidst the family of God - He dreamed and saw the future. Eventually they sold this prophetic voice to the slave traders not realizing that wherever they sent the prophetic voice, they were destined to follow.
God is a God of love, and there is no doubt that we are living in a period of grace. However, I also noted that when a fig tree was not producing fruit, Jesus cursed it and it died from the roots. A root is defined as "the basic cause, source or origin of something; a descendant - The root of David; The essential nature of something." Sometimes God has to cut off the source of "nourishment" to bring an end to a fruitless tree. What disturbed me even further was the fact that God used the following words to describe the depth of this act of nature; "I will take the curses and the bodies will even rise and they will come forth on the water." I realized that He was saying that the curses would rise, and as a result human bodies would rise and come forth on the water. I know that the two are related because curses bring death and God was saying that it was the end of an era of "death" over the region of New Orleans. Water speaks of judgment but also speaks of cleansing. "Enough of this, enough of this" was proclaimed by God and he was refusing them access to the past "vomit" of criticism, tearing each other down and divisiveness. Louisiana was the focus of attention, nationally and internationally in the Eighties and even the Nineties, and God was saying that he would not allow this to continue; it only produces death.
A few thoughts on this:
- This prophecy, I suspect, went up on his website after the fact. I periodically check his website and don't remember seeing before the hurricane. A Google search should have shown a cache for this prophecy if it had been up earlier, but it didn't.
- Elijah List, which is faithful to report Clement's prophecies, didn't until after the fact. One would think that such an important word from "God" would have been proclaimed loud and clear beforehand!
- Even Sodom and Gomorrah were warned before being judged. New Orleans didn't receive a warning. Why didn't Kim Clement go on TBN, go to the national media, travel to New Orleans, and do whatever else was necessary to warn them if his message was truly from God?
- If New Orleans was being judged, what did the rest of Louisiana, Mississippi and the other states do that was so wrong? Over 100 died in Mississippi! God's aim seemed to be pretty good with Sodom and Gomorrah, but not so good with New Orleans.
- If New Orleans was being judged, why was the heart of New Orleans, Bourbon Street, spared??? (AFX News Limited, Sept. 6, 2005)
- Such nonsense from self-proclaimed prophets only serve to blacken the Name of Christ. I don't think a lot of those who are suffering deserved it - it's far more likely they got flooded because of their location, not their vocation.
- New Orleans has been relying on a 100 year old system. That's why it gave away.
- The website "Infoplease" http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001440.html reports that in 1642 300,000 drowned in China when rebels destroyed the Kaifeng sea wall and in 1931 3.7 million died in China from flooding on the Yangtze River and the resulting disease and starvation. Because of the sheer numbers does this mean they were punished as well? Natural disasters happen - we live in a fallen world and they will happen. They might even get worse but not because God is necessarily judging anyone, but they might get worse because the world is deteriorating due to its fallen state.
- Of course Christians can be disciplined by God, but I don't think it's likely all those Christians who lost their homes or died were all being disciplined -- and yet they have suffered, not from God's judgment, from a natural disaster. Christians will suffer due to a fallen world.
- For those who are from the school that believes Christians will escape the Tribulation and thus God's judgment (I'm not), why would you believe they would face His judgment in New Orleans?
- Yes, God CAN judge today and does, but Luke 13: 1-5 (as well as John 9:1-3 - the man born blind) warns us in essence not to try and interpret specific events, that God has His own reasons for allowing certain things to happen.
"Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, 'Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.'"
The people thought they knew why the Galileans had died or why those who were killed in Siloam died, or why the man was born blind in John. They were wrong.
The fundamental truth underlying Luke 13:1-5 is that God calls each of us to live a life of true and continual repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, which includes accepting the fact that God does not promise to answer all of our questions about "why" certain things happen in our lives and in the world.